Hunderte Millionen Euro gestohlen?: Bitcoin-Börse MtGox ...

Bitcoin en Français

Bitcoin est à la fois une devise monétaire et un système de paiement dans cette devise.

Mac OSX Dashboard widget for Bitcoin course in EUR (using MTGOX data)

I just searched for a simple dashboard widget and just could find 1 at but since that one is only for USD i edited the code. If u want that too, just edit the main.js in the mtgoxticker.wdgt (right click, show whats in the folder). And override the code with this: Pastebin Link. I didnt want to post the program coz all would be suspicious and think it would be a trojan or smthn like. The whole code from Shrapnel is in HTML / Java Script so u can rewatch it
submitted by Dlotan to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

In roughly 5 hours from now, Mark Karpeles (MtGox) will be doing a live Q&A on YouTube

In roughly 5 hours from now, Mark Karpeles (MtGox) will be doing a live Q&A on YouTube submitted by BitcoinXio to btc [link] [comments] has been holding my almost €3000 and does not talk

It's kind of a warning to other people, but also a question if anyone has been in a similar situation.
Seeing that the price on was a bit higher than on other BTC/EUR markets (e.g. kraken, bitstmap), since I have had a verified account there for years, I decided to sell 0.5 BTC there.
Selling was easy - but then I requested EUR withdrawal.. First it was marked as "Queued", in which case I could cancel it, buy back BTC and withdraw the crypto... Unfortunately I did not do this. Instead I sent an email to their "customer support" complaining that it's been taking too long. They never answered the email, but then the status of my withdrawal changed to "Executed". Which would have been great, if not for the fact that it was executed on 14th of July and I still have not received a single penny onto my bank account.
Since then I've sent like half a dozen of emails to contact[at], but not single one of them was answered or even acknowledged. And they don't have any phone number, or any other means to communicate.
I'm not quite sure what to do now. The exchange has always seemed legit, many people trade there, I've used it myself in the past... I doubt they'd just steal a couple thousands of euro from me. But the fact that they keep my money while not answering my emails for weeks is making me feel quite uncomfortable.
I guess at some point I will have to give up waiting and just go report it at the police. Just hoping it wont be necessary.
Does anyone know what the hell is going on with these folks at zyado? Has anyone had a successful SEPA withdrawal from there recently? Because just the fact that one bitcoin is 20-40 EUR more expensive on zyado than anywhere else, suggests that the EUR withdrawal is a wider problem there.
submitted by jacek666 to BitcoinMarkets [link] [comments]

An extensive guide for cashing out bitcoin and cryptocurrencies into private banks

Hey guys.
Merry Xmas !
I am coming back to you with a follow up post, as I have helped many people cash out this year and I have streamlined the process. After my original post, I received many requests to be more specific and provide more details. I thought that after the amazing rally we have been attending over the last few months, and the volatility of the last few days, it would be interesting to revisit more extensively.
The attitude of banks around crypto is changing slowly, but it is still a tough stance. For the first partial cash out I operated around a year ago for a client, it took me months to find a bank. They wouldn’t want to even consider the case and we had to knock at each and every door. Despite all my contacts it was very difficult back in the days. This has changed now, and banks have started to open their doors, but there is a process, a set of best practices and codes one has to follow.
I often get requests from crypto guys who are very privacy-oriented, and it takes me months to have them understand that I am bound by Swiss law on banking secrecy, and I am their ally in this onboarding process. It’s funny how I have to convince people that banks are legit, while on the other side, banks ask me to show that crypto millionaires are legit. I have a solid background in both banking and in crypto so I manage to make the bridge, but yeah sometimes it is tough to reconcile the two worlds. I am a crypto enthusiast myself and I can say that after years of work in the banking industry I have grown disillusioned towards banks as well, like many of you. Still an account in a Private bank is convenient and powerful. So let’s get started.
There are two different aspects to your onboarding in a Swiss Private bank, compliance-wise.
*The origin of your crypto wealth
*Your background (residence, citizenship and probity)
These two aspects must be documented in-depth.
How to document your crypto wealth. Each new crypto millionaire has a different story. I may detail a few fun stories later in this post, but at the end of the day, most of crypto rich I have met can be categorized within the following profiles: the miner, the early adopter, the trader, the corporate entity, the black market, the libertarian/OTC buyer. The real question is how you prove your wealth is legit.
1. Context around the original amount/investment Generally speaking, your first crypto purchase may not be documented. But the context around this acquisition can be. I have had many cases where the original amount was bought through Mtgox, and no proof of purchase could be provided, nor could be documented any Mtgox claim. That’s perfectly fine. At some point Mtgox amounted 70% of the bitcoin transactions globally, and people who bought there and managed to withdraw and keep hold of their bitcoins do not have any Mtgox claim. This is absolutely fine. However, if you can show me the record of a wire from your bank to Tisbane (Mtgox's parent company) it's a great way to start.
Otherwise, what I am trying to document here is the following: I need context. If you made your first purchase by saving from summer jobs, show me a payroll. Even if it was USD 2k. If you acquired your first bitcoins from mining, show me the bills of your mining equipment from 2012 or if it was through a pool mine, give me your slushpool account ref for instance. If you were given bitcoin against a service you charged, show me an invoice.
2. Tracking your wealth until today and making sense of it. What I have been doing over the last few months was basically educating compliance officers. Thanks God, the blockchain is a global digital ledger! I have been telling my auditors and compliance officers they have the best tool at their disposal to lead a proper investigation. Whether you like it or not, your wealth can be tracked, from address to address. You may have thought all along this was a bad feature, but I am telling you, if you want to cash out, in the context of Private Banking onboarding, tracking your wealth through the block explorer is a boon. We can see the inflows, outflows. We can see the age behind an address. An early adopter who bought 1000 BTC in 2010, and let his bitcoin behind one address and held thus far is legit, whether or not he has a proof of purchase to show. That’s just common sense. My job is to explain that to the banks in a language they understand.
Let’s have a look at a few examples and how to document the few profiles I mentioned earlier.
The trader. I love traders. These are easy cases. I have a ton of respect for them. Being a trader myself in investment banks for a decade earlier in my career has taught me that controlling one’s emotions and having the discipline to impose oneself some proper risk management system is really really hard. Further, being able to avoid the exchange bankruptcy and hacks throughout crypto history is outstanding. It shows real survival instinct, or just plain blissed ignorance. In any cases traders at exchange are easy cases to corroborate since their whole track record is potentially available. Some traders I have met have automated their trading and have shown me more than 500k trades done over the span of 4 years. Obviously in this kind of scenario I don’t show everything to the bank to avoid information overload, and prefer to do some snacking here and there. My strategy is to show the early trades, the most profitable ones, explain the trading strategy and (partially expose) the situation as of now with id pages of the exchanges and current balance. Many traders have become insensitive to the risk of parking their crypto at exchange as they want to be able to trade or to grasp an occasion any minute, so they generally do not secure a substantial portion on the blockchain which tends to make me very nervous.
The early adopter. Provided that he has not mixed his coin, the early adopter or “hodler” is not a difficult case either. Who cares how you bought your first 10k btc if you bought them below 3$ ? Even if you do not have a purchase proof, I would generally manage to find ways. We just have to corroborate the original 30’000 USD investment in this case. I mainly focus on three things here:
*proof of early adoption I have managed to educate some banks on a few evidences specifically related to crypto markets. For instance with me, an old bitcointalk account can serve as a proof of early adoption. Even an old reddit post from a few years ago where you say how much you despise this Ripple premined scam can prove to be a treasure readily available to show you were early.
*story telling Compliance officers like to know when, why and how. They are human being looking for simple answers to simple questions and they don’t want like to be played fool. Telling the truth, even without a proof can do wonders, and even though bluffing might still work because banks don’t fully understand bitcoin yet, it is a risky strategy that is less and less likely to pay off as they are getting more sophisticated by the day.
*micro transaction from an old address you control This is the killer feature. Send a $20 worth transaction from an old address to my company wallet and to one of my partner bank’s wallet and you are all set ! This is gold and considered a very solid piece of evidence. You can also do a microtransaction to your own wallet, but banks generally prefer transfer to their own wallet. Patience with them please. they are still learning.
*signature message Why do a micro transaction when you can sign a message and avoid potentially tainting your coins ?
*ICO millionaire Some clients made their wealth participating in ETH crowdsale or IOTA ICO. They were very easy to deal with obviously and the account opening was very smooth since we could evidence the GENESIS TxHash flow.
The miner Not so easy to proof the wealth is legit in that case. Most early miners never took screenshot of the blocks on bitcoin core, nor did they note down the block number of each block they mined. Until the the Slashdot article from August 2010 anyone could mine on his laptop, let his computer run overnight and wake up to a freshly minted block containing 50 bitcoins back in the days. Not many people were structured enough to store and secure these coins, avoid malwares while syncing the blockchain continuously, let alone document the mined blocks in the process. What was 50 BTC worth really for the early miners ? dust of dollars, games and magic cards… Even miners post 2010 are generally difficult to deal with in terms of compliance onboarding. Many pool mining are long dead. Deepbit is down for instance and the founders are MIA. So my strategy to proof mining activity is as follow:
*Focusing on IT background whenever possible. An IT background does help a lot to bring some substance to the fact you had the technical ability to operate a mining rig.
*Showing mining equipment receipts. If you mined on your own you must have bought the hardware to do so. For instance mining equipment receipts from butterfly lab from 2012-2013 could help document your case. Similarly, high electricity bill from your household on a consistent basis back in the day could help. I have already unlocked a tricky case in the past with such documents when the bank was doubtful.
*Wallet.dat files with block mining transactions from 2011 thereafter This obviously is a fantastic piece of evidence for both you and me if you have an old wallet and if you control an address that received original mined blocks, (even if the wallet is now empty). I will make sure compliance officers understand what it means, and as for the early adopter, you can prove your control over these wallet through a microtransaction. With these kind of addresses, I can show on the block explorer the mined block rewards hitting at regular time interval, and I can even spot when difficulty level increased or when halvening process happened.
*Poolmining account. Here again I have educated my partner bank to understand that a slush account opened in 2013 or an OnionTip presence was enough to corroborate mining activity. The block explorer then helps me to do the bridge with your current wallet.
*Describing your set up and putting it in context In the history of mining we had CPU, GPU, FPG and ASICs mining. I will describe your technical set up and explain why and how your set up was competitive at that time.
The corporate entity Remember 2012 when we were all convinced bitcoin would take over the world, and soon everyone would pay his coffee in bitcoin? How naïve we were to think transaction fees would remain low forever. I don’t blame bitcoin cash supporters; I once shared this dream as well. Remember when we thought global adoption was right around the corner and some brick and mortar would soon accept bitcoin transaction as a common mean of payment? Well, some shop actually did accept payment and held. I had a few cases as such of shops holders, who made it to the multi million mark holding and had invoices or receipts to proof the transactions. If you are organized enough to keep a record for these trades and are willing to cooperate for the documentation, you are making your life easy. The digital advertising business is also a big market for the bitcoin industry, and affiliates partner compensated in btc are common. It is good to show an invoice, it is better to show a contract. If you do not have a contract (which is common since all advertising deals are about ticking a check box on the website to accept terms and conditions), there are ways around that. If you are in that case, pm me.
The black market Sorry guys, I can’t do much for you officially. Not that I am judging you. I am a libertarian myself. It’s just already very difficult to onboard legit btc adopters, so the black market is a market I cannot afford to consider. My company is regulated so KYC and compliance are key for me if I want to stay in business. Behind each case I push forward I am risking the credibility and reputation I have built over the years. So I am sorry guys I am not risking it to make an extra buck. Your best hope is that crypto will eventually take over the world and you won’t need to cash out anyway. Or go find a Lithuanian bank that is light on compliance and cooperative.
The OTC buyer and the libertarian. Generally a very difficult case. If you bought your stack during your journey in Japan 5 years ago to a guy you never met again; or if you accumulated on and kept no record or lost your account, it is going to be difficult. Not impossible but difficult. We will try to build a case with everything else we have, and I may be able to onboard you. However I am risking a lot here so I need to be 100% confident you are legit, before I defend you. Come & see me in Geneva, and we will talk. I will run forensic services like elliptic, chainalysis, or scorechain on an extract of your wallet. If this scan does not raise too many red flags, then maybe we can work together ! If you mixed your coins all along your crypto history, and shredded your seeds because you were paranoid, or if you made your wealth mining professionally monero over the last 3 years but never opened an account at an exchange. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ I am not a magician and don’t get me wrong, I love monero, it’s not the point.
Cashing out ICOs Private companies or foundations who have ran an ICO generally have a very hard time opening a bank account. The few banks that accept such projects would generally look at 4 criteria:
*Seriousness of the project Extensive study of the whitepaper to limit the reputation risk
*AML of the onboarding process ICOs 1.0 have no chance basically if a background check of the investors has not been conducted
*Structure of the moral entity List of signatories, certificate of incumbency, work contract, premises...
*Fiscal conformity Did the company informed the authorities and seek a fiscal ruling.
For the record, I am not into the tax avoidance business, so people come to me with a set up and I see if I can make it work within the legal framework imposed to me.
First, stop thinking Switzerland is a “offshore heaven” Swiss banks have made deals with many governments for the exchange of fiscal information. If you are a French citizen, resident in France and want to open an account in a Private Bank in Switzerland to cash out your bitcoins, you will get slaughtered (>60%). There are ways around that, and I could refer you to good tax specialists for fiscal optimization, but I cannot organize it myself. It would be illegal for me. Swiss private banks makes it easy for you to keep a good your relation with your retail bank and continue paying your bills without headaches. They are integrated to SEPA, provide ebanking and credit cards.
For information, these are the kind of set up some of my clients came up with. It’s all legal; obviously I do not onboard clients that are not tax compliant. Further disclaimer: I did not contribute myself to these set up. Do not ask me to organize it for you. I won’t.
EU tricks
Swiss lump sum taxation Foreign nationals resident in Switzerland can be taxed on a lump-sum basis if they are not gainfully employed in our country. Under the lump-sum tax regime, foreign nationals taking residence in Switzerland may choose to pay an expense-based tax instead of ordinary income and wealth tax. Attractive cantons for the lump sum taxation are Zug, Vaud, Valais, Grisons, Lucerne and Berne. To make it short, you will be paying somewhere between 200 and 400k a year and all expenses will be deductible.
Switzerland has adopted a very friendly attitude towards crypto currency in general. There is a whole crypto valley in Zug now. 30% of ICOs are operated in Switzerland. The reason is that Switzerland has thrived for centuries on banking secrecy, and today with FATCA and exchange of fiscal info with EU, banking secrecy is dead. Regulators in Switzerland have understood that digital ledger technologies were a way to roll over this competitive advantage for the generations to come. Switzerland does not tax capital gains on crypto profits. The Finma has a very pragmatic approach. They have issued guidance- updated guidelines here. They let the business get organized and operate their analysis on a case per case basis. Only after getting a deep understanding of the market will they issue a global fintech license in 2019. This approach is much more realistic than legislations which try to regulate everything beforehand.
Italy new tax exemption. It’s a brand new fiscal exemption. Go to Aoste, get residency and you could be taxed a 100k/year for 10years. Yes, really.
Portugal What’s crazy in Europe is the lack of fiscal harmonization. Even if no one in Brussels dares admit it, every other country is doing fiscal dumping. Portugal is such a country and has proved very friendly fiscally speaking. I personally have a hard time trusting Europe. I have witnessed what happened in Greece over the last few years. Some of our ultra high net worth clients got stuck with capital controls. I mean no way you got out of crypto to have your funds confiscated at the next financial crisis! Anyway. FYI
Malta Generally speaking, if you get a residence somewhere you have to live there for a certain period of time. Being stuck in Italy is no big deal with Schengen Agreement, but in Malta it is a different story. In Malta, the ordinary residence scheme is more attractive than the HNWI residence scheme. Being an individual, you can hold a residence permit under this scheme and pay zero income tax in Malta in a completely legal way.
Monaco Not suitable for French citizens, but for other Ultra High Net worth individual, Monaco is worth considering. You need an account at a local bank as a proof of fortune, and this account generally has to be seeded with at least EUR500k. You also need a proof of residence. I do mean UHNI because if you don’t cash out minimum 30m it’s not interesting. Everything is expensive in Monaco. Real Estate is EUR 50k per square meter. A breakfast at Monte Carlo Bay hotel is 70 EUR. Monaco is sunny but sometimes it feels like a golden jail. Do you really want that for your kids?
  1. Set up a company in Dubaï, get your resident card.
  2. Spend one day every 6 month there
  3. ???
  4. Be tax free
US tricks Some Private banks in Geneva do have the license to manage the assets of US persons and U.S citizens. However, do not think it is a way to avoid paying taxes in the US. Opening an account at an authorized Swiss Private banks is literally the same tax-wise as opening an account at Fidelity or at Bank of America in the US. The only difference is that you will avoid all the horror stories. Horror stories are all real by the way. In Switzerland, if you build a decent case and answer all the questions and corroborate your case in depth, you will manage to convince compliance officers beforehand. When the money eventually hits your account, it is actually available and not frozen.
The IRS and FATCA require to file FBAR if an offshore account is open. However FBAR is a reporting requirement and does not have taxes related to holding an account outside the US. The taxes would be the same if the account was in the US. However penalties for non compliance with FBAR are very large. The tax liability management is actually performed through the management of the assets ( for exemple by maximizing long term capital gains and minimizing short term gains).
The case for Porto Rico. Full disclaimer here. I am not encouraging this. Have not collaborated on such tax avoidance schemes. if you are interested I strongly encourage you to seek a tax advisor and get a legal opinion. I am not responsible for anything written below. I am not going to say much because I am so afraid of uncle Sam that I prefer to humbly pass the hot potato to pwc From here all it takes is a good advisor and some creativity to be tax free on your crypto wealth if you are a US person apparently. Please, please please don’t ask me more. And read the disclaimer again.
Trust tricks Generally speaking I do not accept fringe fiscal situation because it puts me in a difficult situation to the banks I work with, and it is already difficult enough to defend a legit crypto case. Trust might be a way to optimize your fiscal situation. Belize. Bahamas. Seychelles. Panama, You name it. At the end of the day, what matters for Swiss Banks are the beneficial owner and the settlor. Get a legal opinion, get it done, and when you eventually knock at a private bank’s door, don’t say it was for fiscal avoidance you stupid ! You will get the door smashed upon you. Be smarter. It will work. My advice is just to have it done by a great tax specialist lawyer, even if it costs you some money, as the entity itself needs to be structured in a professional way. Remember that with trust you are dispossessing yourself off your wealth. Not something to be taken lightly.
“Anonymous” cash out. Right. I think I am not going into this topic, neither expose the ways to get it done. Pm me for details. I already feel a bit uncomfortable with all the info I have provided. I am just going to mention many people fear that crypto exchange might become reporting entities soon, and rightly so. This might happen anyday. You have been warned. FYI, this only works for non-US and large cash out.
The difference between traders an investors. Danmark, Holland and Germany all make a huge difference if you are a passive investor or if you are a trader. ICO is considered investing for instance and is not taxed, while trading might be considered as income and charged aggressively. I would try my best to protect you and put a focus on your investor profile whenever possible, so you don't have to pay 52% tax if you do not have to :D
Full cash out or partial cash out? People who have been sitting on crypto for long have grown an emotional and irrational link with their coins. They come to me and say, look, I have 50m in crypto but I would like to cash out 500k only. So first let me tell you that as a wealth manager my advice to you is to take some off the table. Doing a partial cash out is absolutely fine. The market is bullish. We are witnessing a redistribution of wealth at a global scale. Bitcoin is the real #occupywallstreet, and every one will discuss crypto at Xmas eve which will make the market even more supportive beginning 2018, especially with all hedge funds entering the scene. If you want to stay exposed to bitcoin and altcoins, and believe these techs will change the world, it’s just natural you want to keep some coins. In the meantime, if you have lived off pizzas over the last years, and have the means to now buy yourself an nice house and have an account at a private bank, then f***ing do it mate ! Buy physical gold with this account, buy real estate, have some cash at hands. Even though US dollar is worthless to your eyes, it’s good and convenient to have some. Also remember your wife deserves it ! And if you have no wife yet and you are socially awkward like the rest of us, then maybe cashing out partially will help your situation ;)
What the Private Banks expect. Joke aside, it is important you understand something. If you come around in Zurich to open a bank account and partially cash out, just don’t expect Private Banks will make an exception for you if you are small. You can’t ask them to facilitate your cash out, buy a 1m apartment with the proceeds of the sale, and not leave anything on your current account. It won’t work. Sadly, under 5m you are considered small in private banking. The bank is ok to let you open an account, provided that your kyc and compliance file are validated, but they will also want you to become a client and leave some money there to invest. This might me despicable, but I am just explaining you their rules. If you want to cash out, you should sell enough to be comfortable and have some left. Also expect the account opening to last at least 3-4 week if everything goes well. You can't just open an account overnight.
The cash out logistics. Cashing out 1m USD a day in bitcoin or more is not so hard.
Let me just tell you this: Even if you get a Tier 4 account with Kraken and ask Alejandro there to raise your limit over $100k per day, Even if you have a bitfinex account and you are willing to expose your wealth there, Even if you have managed to pass all the crazy due diligence at Bitstamp,
The amount should be fractioned to avoid risking your full wealth on exchange and getting slaughtered on the price by trading big quantities. Cashing out involves significant risks at all time. There is a security risk of compromising your keys, a counterparty risk, a fat finger risk. Let it be done by professionals. It is worth every single penny.
Most importantly, there is a major difference between trading on an exchange and trading OTC. Even though it’s not publicly disclosed some exchange like Kraken do have OTC desks. Trading on an exchange for a large amount will weight on the prices. Bitcoin is a thin market. In my opinion over 30% of the coins are lost in translation forever. Selling $10m on an exchange in a day can weight on the prices more than you’d think. And if you trade on a exchange, everything is shown on record, and you might wipe out the prices because on exchanges like bitstamp or kraken ultimately your counterparties are retail investors and the market depth is not huge. It is a bit better on Bitfinex. It is way better to trade OTC. Accessing the institutional OTC market is not easy, and that is also the reason why you should ask a regulated financial intermediary if we are talking about huge amounts.
Last point, always chose EUR as opposed to USD. EU correspondent banks won’t generally block institutional amounts. However we had the cases of USD funds frozen or delayed by weeks.
Most well-known OTC desks are Cumberlandmining (ask for Lucas), Genesis (ask for Martin), Bitcoin Suisse AG (ask for Niklas), circletrade, B2C2, or Altcoinomy (ask for Olivier)
Very very large whales can also set up escrow accounts for massive block trades. This world, where blocks over 30k BTC are exchanged between 2 parties would deserve a reddit thread of its own. Crazyness all around.
Your options: DIY or going through a regulated financial intermediary.
Execution trading is a job in itself. You have to be patient, be careful not to wipe out the order book and place limit orders, monitor the market intraday for spikes or opportunities. At big levels, for a large cash out that may take weeks, these kind of details will save you hundred thousands of dollars. I understand crypto holders are suspicious and may prefer to do it by themselves, but there are regulated entities who now offer the services. Besides, being a crypto millionaire is not a guarantee you will get institutional daily withdrawal limits at exchange. You might, but it will take you another round of KYC with them, and surprisingly this round might be even more aggressive that the ones at Private banks since exchange have gone under intense scrutiny by regulators lately.
The fees for cashing out through a regulated financial intermediary to help you with your cash out should be around 1-2% flat on the nominal, not more. And for this price you should get the full package: execution/monitoring of the trades AND onboarding in a private bank. If you are asked more, you are being abused.
Of course, you also have the option to do it yourself. It is a way more tedious and risky process. Compliance with the exchange, compliance with the private bank, trading BTC/fiat, monitoring the transfers…You will save some money but it will take you some time and stress. Further, if you approach a private bank directly, it will trigger a series of red flag to the banks. As I said in my previous post, they call a direct approach a “walk-in”. They will be more suspicious than if you were introduced by someone and won’t hesitate to show you high fees and load your portfolio with in-house products that earn more money to the banks than to you. Remember also most banks still do not understand crypto so you will have a lot of explanations to provide and you will have to start form scratch with them!
The paradox of crypto millionaires Most of my clients who made their wealth through crypto all took massive amount of risks to end up where they are. However, most of them want their bank account to be managed with a low volatility fixed income capital preservation risk profile. This is a paradox I have a hard time to explain and I think it is mainly due to the fact that most are distrustful towards banks and financial markets in general. Many clients who have sold their crypto also have a cash-out blues in the first few months. This is a classic situation. The emotions involved in hodling for so long, the relief that everything has eventually gone well, the life-changing dynamics, the difficulties to find a new motivation in life…All these elements may trigger a post cash-out depression. It is another paradox of the crypto rich who has every card in his hand to be happy, but often feel a bit sad and lonely. Sometimes, even though it’s not my job, I had to do some psychological support. A lot of clients have also become my friends, because we have the same age and went through the same “ordeal”. First world problem I know… Remember, cashing out is not the end. It’s actually the beginning. Don’t look back, don’t regret. Cash out partially, because it does not make sense to cash out in full, regret it and want back in. relax.
The race to cash out crypto billionaire and the concept of late exiter. The Winklevoss brothers are obviously the first of a series. There will be crypto billionaires. Many of them. At a certain level you can have a whole family office working for you to manage your assets and take care of your needs . However, let me tell you it’s is not because you made it so big that you should think you are a genius and know everything better than anyone. You should hire professionals to help you. Managing assets require some education around the investment vehicles and risk management strategies. Sorry guys but with all the respect I have for wallstreebet, AMD and YOLO stock picking, some discipline is necessary. The investors who have made money through crypto are generally early adopters. However I have started to see another profile popping up. They are not early adopters. They are late exiters. It is another way but just as efficient. Last week I met the first crypto millionaire I know who first bough bitcoin over 1000$. 55k invested at the beginning of this year. Late adopter & late exiter is a route that can lead to the million.
Last remarks. I know banks, bankers, and FIAT currencies are so last century. I know some of you despise them and would like to have them burn to the ground. With compliance officers taking over the business, I would like to start the fire myself sometimes. I hope this extensive guide has helped some of you. I am around if you need more details. I love my job despite all my frustration towards the banking industry because it makes me meet interesting people on a daily basis. I am a crypto enthusiast myself, and I do think this tech is here to stay and will change the world. Banks will have to adapt big time. Things have started to change already; they understand the threat is real. I can feel the generational gap in Geneva, with all these old bankers who don’t get what’s going on. They glaze at the bitcoin chart on CNBC in disbelief and they start to get it. This bitcoin thing is not a joke. Deep inside, as an early adopter who also intends to be a late exiter, as a libertarian myself, it makes me smile with satisfaction.
Cheers. @swisspb on telegram
submitted by Swissprivatebanker to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Do not use Mt. Gox

The other week we had a post that said "do not use BFL". We were discussing to make it a sticky to keep BTC starters from using any of the black sheeps. I suggest the same for Mt. Gox. The withdrawing times (if ever) are just not tolerable for a business like that.
So maybe below FAQ we can create a black sheep list with BTC services that should be avoided. I am positive this will save some people nerves and money.
submitted by SAnderson1986 to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Proposition: UK banks blocking transfers to Bitcoin exchanges is illegal and in violation of UK Competition Law

Proposition: UK banks blocking transfers to Bitcoin exchanges is illegal and in violation of UK Competition Law:
From Wikipedia:
"Like all competition law, that in the UK has three main tasks.
I know very little about the details of the law but isn't what the banks are doing? (And this is not just in the UK!) They are defending a monopoly that should never have been allowed to exist!
Transferwise has just been banned from sending money to Bitstamp:
Mtgox had their account in the UK closed.
Bitfloor closed due to their bank closing it (I think).
We need to do something about this! Can someone with a law background provide a watertight argument for why the banks refusing transfers to Bitcoin exchanges is illegal?
Can we take the banks to court over this?
submitted by matt608 to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Re: inquiries about MtGox disbursements and proposed revival

Here’s why we’re in this situation.
The trustee forced the user-victims to give, without compensation, a free call option to the Gox shareholders to buy 200k BTC at $2500 at any time prior to the distribution. Thus, a perverse incentive to delay distributions was born. The result:
What can be done? (in theory)
With regard to the proposal to revive MtGox, I just don’t see the ROI for an investor to take this on. It’s a massive and extremely difficult undertaking with a highly improbable outcome. Why shouldn’t the investor just hodl and chill, or buy a fully functioning, profitable exchange without a massive brand problem? Why shouldn’t Kraken just dump $245m in to marketing instead? And, why would it be necessary if the shareholders would just commit to donating their gains to the victims?
The trustee has already said that fiat payouts will be optionally payable to Kraken accounts, and that if bitcoin payouts are approved by the court, they will be payable only to Kraken accounts. If any of the Gox shareholders end up with an unexpected windfall that they wish to distribute to the user-victims, Kraken would happily facilitate. Kraken already has most of the accounts as a result of our facilitation of claims collection, the $1m worth of free trading each claimant received, and our providing support to victims and trustee over the last 4 years. People are not sitting on the sidelines waiting for a MtGox revival – they’ve been off trading elsewhere and you’d have a hard sell bringing them back. IMO, it's a pipe dream.
I'm glad to see the formation of and hope that together the creditors can drive some progress toward the only morally acceptable outcome, which is that the user-victims receive 100% of whatever remains after bankruptcy fees.
submitted by jespow to mtgoxinsolvency [link] [comments]

The Ghost in the Machine at Mt.Gox

Here's part 2 of our coverage on Gox, now with blockchain analytics and about 90k BTC we feel very certain are still under Gox's control (unless they lost the keys)
Great thread on part one, just caught up on it
submitted by AdamBLevine to BitcoinMarkets [link] [comments]

BitcoinChain is glad to announce new features: Realtime MtGox marketdata, Live MtGox, BTC-E and Bitstamp OrderBook. Also check the dark theme

BitcoinChain is glad to announce new features: Realtime MtGox marketdata, Live MtGox, BTC-E and Bitstamp OrderBook. Also check the dark theme submitted by BitcoinChain to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

No.1 Bitcoin Exchange: btcchina

Have you noticed that at the moment is the biggest bitcoin exchange around world in terms of their 24h exchange volume? Here are details: btcnCNY----16,368.28; bitstampUSD----14,577.49; mtgoxUSD----13,129.23. Time: 17:15 Beijing Time, Thu 10 Oct, 2013. Sourse: I am sure that China will play a very important role in the future world since bitcoin adoption there is almost frictionless. Amazing Chinese!
submitted by winsyzh to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

A word of caution. All major exchanges are not even fiat gateways. The actual fiat in the system is likely grossly overestimated. Crypto is decoupled from USD. Implications.

First of all i should disclose i'm fully out of crypto since last Sunday, i'm just waiting for my EUR wire from Bitstamp as that has been my gateway since 2014. I would like to thank bitcoinmarkets for the good times, i've been around for a long time but not really participating that much, and even when I did i used throwaways. I decided to make this topic as a warning and to explain why I got out and why I think you should be very careful.
So we have a situation in which:
1) 80% or more of trading is in USDT (tether)
2) Coinmarket cap is an accomplice to Bitfinex which implies USDT-USD parity. To which degree this is intentional, irresponsibility or just incompetence I would not know. Basically conimarketplace lumps all USDT trades and prices with actual USD trades and prices. If you go there and try to select PAIR, you get THIS. No USDT, even though most exchanges are USDT. Even if most of liquidity is USDT. Again, this is a major factor in implying parity along with what Bitfinex/Tether try to do. As if this wasn't enough, they also willingly or stupidly inflate USDT price itself. I have to remind you Coinmarketcap is THE point of reference for all cryptosphere. It's oscilating Alexa rank is 100-400. Betfair (real life gambling company) for example uses coinmarket price average for their own system. etc.
3) If/when tethebitfinex crashes, not only does bitfinex crash, it will crash all crypto pairings using USDT on all exchanges using USDT.
4) There are very few fiat gateways. Until recently I assumed the major(top) exchanges have some kind of fiat pairing. I mean.. any respectable exchange would have some way of actually getting money in and out, right? I didn't even think to check. Well, they don't. Literally all the major exchanges are USDT (and/or another stablecoin or proprietary coin) and nothing else. No USD, no EUR, no fiat whatsoever. . Only the 11th one has actual USD pairing. Didn't check lower but most exchanges don't have fiat. I did a full check on Binance myself as it's the biggest exchange and I had an account there for lulz. There is no fiat.
What does this mean? It means that an allegedly 200 BILLION market cap of all crypto has a fiat gateway of only a couple of exchanges. Most exchanges not using any fiat are not only immune to the risk, they offload risk on the much smaller exchanges that are fiat gateways. And on clients, of course. The cash side of the actual exchanges would need to have to siphon even a fraction of this are unimaginable. If any of these exchanges use crypto to evaluate their own fiat balance (it is illegal but crypto is hardly regulated or audited), they're fucked.
5) If the first four points looked bad, this one is by far the worst. The system is running on a presumed liquidity provided by Tether and on presumed USD capital. Even if tether was legit it's just 2b USD rolling 200b USD. And that 200b USD is just presumed quantity of USD that is in. We don't know how much USD is in the system, there could be and there probably is way less, as over the past 8 years or so crypto ran mostly on funny exchanges that could "provide" whatever USD value they wanted. More so, even if they went bust, people would usually get to withdraw crypto and store it on some other exchange. Even when an exchange was slowly withering, people just pulled out crypto and the exchange actual liquidity was hardly tested out. Or btc-e crashing or MtGox crashing. Their cash side crashed but "crypto" side did not crash. It was bailed out so to speak. So we have crypto running around that should've been worth 1/10 or 1/100 of it's price but it's instead running on par value with crypto on legit exchanges. This grossly inflates price.
Even if tether (or other stablecoin) is legit, it can be drained in a couple of hours. What happens to the pairings of crypto/USDT? People just trade one bitcoin at the presumable price of 6k for 6k USDT that are 100% backed but have no value because there's no USD in the treasury? Who is stupid enough to deposit USD there to get stuck waiting for another fool to bail him out by getting himself stuck?
edit: [Even if tether is 1%, it holds much more assumed/created value, which is the actual issue. Look at it this way. It only adds 1 cent to a real dollar market buy order for example. Each buy order made in a system that implies USDT:USD parity is now worth 1% more than a true USD purchase. Now repeat that buy order millions of times. It's not 1.01+1.01 times 1 million. It's more like 1.01$1.000.000 Each added value comes from USDT injection and USDT has to be liquid on the way down as well. It's added value to the market value is NOT it's market cap. That's a shitfest all "stablecoins" inject into the market, no matter how backed or audited they are.]
As I was saying, all the exchanges that are not holding any fiat are immune to any crash or actual liability. If/when cryptos fail, they'll give you back any number of cryptos/stablecoins you had, even if they're worthless. It's just entries in a database. If/when USDT fails, all it's corresponding crypto prices will go to infinity. If you're holding any USDT, you can't get out of the exchange because 1 btc will cost infinity. If you're in any margin position, no matter where your stops are you'll get margin called instead, as stops are just suggestions in high/extreme volatility. You can't get out through fiat cause there's no fiat.
Your only hope is you were actually holding crypto and they don't block withdrawals. Best case scenario you move your crypto to a fiat gateway exchange and hope to cash out there as fast as possible because it will have had become evident that cryptos were overvalued because of USDT (and even hypothetical USD in the system). Will most likely be too late as people that were already in fiat gateway exchanges already sold/cashed out. There will be enormous sell pressure. And no buyers.
The whole stablecoin issuance is idiotic and I just hope it crashes now and we won't see another bubble built on presumed capital, cause that will hurt way more people. All of this is a mess. Crypto is completely decoupled from real fiat now. The potential money that are in the crypto sphere is exponentially greater than available money to trade out of. Or maybe we should be grateful for stablecoins for finally crashing a system that would've crashed anyway in the long run.
submitted by 5ty54y5yh45 to BitcoinMarkets [link] [comments]

Please provide an option to download a CSV file with the complete order history, for tax reporting purposes!

Please provide an option to download a CSV file with the complete order history, for tax purposes. Reporting crypto Tx's is necessary to be tax-compliant in the US, Europe and many other countries. Most large exchanges have such a feature, or they have an API that Tax-reporting apps can use.
The CSV file should be in a format that can be recognized by Crypto tax apps, e.g. , or .
For example, format is:
The files must either contains the following fields or have these names in the header row:
For example:
2014-01-01 13:00:00 -0800,BUY,Online,BTC,1,500,USD,5.50
submitted by loupiote2 to kucoin [link] [comments]

There's a 10$ gap between MtGox and Bitstamp! Can somebody explain this?

submitted by schossel to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Two Questions for Offline Claim

  1. Is it confirmed that fiat balances on the leaked MtGox_balance.csv were in JPY, because this is what I see on my end: A whole lot of currency codes, USD, AUD, EUR, GBP
  1. For Page 16 of offline claim we have to list the banking information that we used when wiring money to Mtgox. What if this bank account was shut down due to Bitcoin activity and I no longer have account number, routing number or any of the other information on the account like address since I'm not sure if I used my home address or apartment address, lived in 4 different apartments throughout school.

This seems very complicated.
submitted by PYCBTC to mtgoxinsolvency [link] [comments]

Karpeles blog hacked, balances posted

EDIT: I've deleted the link because people are saying there was wallet stealing malware in one of the files on the site. Please never open .exe files from untrusted sources, and exercise caution.
Text of post:
*** SAVE THIS POST, MIRROR THE FILES, REPOST, SHARE AND KEEP THIS DATA AVAILABLE *** First and foremost, this is not Mark Karpeles. Fuck that bitch-titted motherfucker. It’s time that MTGOX got the bitcoin communities wrath instead of Bitcoin Community getting Goxed. This release would have been sooner, but in spirit of responsible disclosure and making sure all of ducks were in a row, it took a few days longer than would have liked to verify the data. Above you will finding download link and a mirror used without asking from Mark Karpeles very own Included in this download you will find relevant database dumps, csv exports, specialized tools, and some highlighted summaries compiled from data. Keeping in line with fucking Gox alone, no user database dumps have been included. Repost and share this info before it’s gone. Lots of people, including us, lost money and coins. Upvote this post. We stole no bitcoins. There were none to steal. If you want to donate, you can keep us full of pizzas and beers by sending coins here, 1859rayqN1X7DYjD1BrAHm4vaQxoUhhzsN . Balance SUM for ALL USERS by currency. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Currency: AUD Balance: 924,124.65121 Currency: BTC Balance: 951,116.21905382 <– That fat fuck has been lying!! Currency: CAD Balance: 320,184.36558 Currency: CHF Balance: 99,487.07308 Currency: CNY Balance: 297,775.78994 Currency: DKK Balance: 112,264.56207 Currency: EUR Balance: 5,634,625.59531 Currency: GBP Balance: 921,892.96793 Currency: HKD Balance: 740,519.14894 Currency: JPY Balance: 384,885,150.13700 Currency: NOK Balance: 91,346.00305 Currency: NZD Balance: 58,224.95320 Currency: PLN Balance: 1,645,194.67364 Currency: RUB Balance: 551,162.54477 Currency: SEK Balance: 15,335.84383 Currency: SGD Balance: 43,193.59706 Currency: THB Balance: 666,464.33497 Currency: USD Balance: 30,611,805.67481 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Total BTC Deposits: 19,065,241.307202 Total BTC Withdrawl: 18,563,466.149383 ———————————— BTC Difference: 501,775.157819 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 
I'm not reporting these claims as true, simply giving you guys a link to something newsworthy. Also, how do I tag something as gox-related?
submitted by misericorde to BitcoinMarkets [link] [comments]

Is it easy to withdraw EUR from MTGox?

I live in an Europe country, thus I'm able to accept SEPA transfers into my bank account. I have seen you can withdraw money from gox via SEPA transfer, but still I see a lot of people complaining about how hard it is to withdraw the money from there.
I'd be providing my full identity + utility bills to fully verify my account before trying to withdraw to avoid troubles.
Does anyone know the truth? Preferably personal experiences.
submitted by black-boy to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

I was Goxxed $55,000 in February 2014 - what should I do now?

I have sent EUR 37,000 (~ USD $50,000) to MtGox on 6th of February 2014. When I heard rumors on /bitcoin about transaction delays, I called my bank to cancel the transfer, but on 9th of February MtGox notified me that they received the EUR 37,000.
At this stage I thought to myself that MtGox just had a bad PR department and everything might be fine. I bought around 100 BTC with my funds, and as the BTC price crashed further I transferred another EUR 3,700 (~ USD $5,000) to MtGox on 17th of February 2014. Regarding the second transfer, it just disappeared (never received confirmation receipt from Gox) and Gox closed it's doors shortly thereafter.
Anyway, I'm shocked to learn that Gox accepted my money even though they seem to have known exactly what was going on. In total, I lost $55,000.
So now, I assume that Gox still has plenty of Fiat. I'm wondering if there is a way to recover at least the $5k transfer and if it's worth to fight in general. Would my chances to recover some fiat be higher when I involve a lawyer? What kind of lawyer do I need for this and in what jurisdiction should he be in (I'm not from Japan)? Also, I'm not sure if this level ($55k) is enough for such steps, as I assume that a lawyer can be expensive.. I would appreciate if somebody can point me into a direction on what I can/should do now.
EDIT: why the downvotes? wrong subreddit?
submitted by KBN123 to BitcoinMarkets [link] [comments]

15.000 € SEPA hanging for 10 days. No answer to my KYC prooves (pics, documents) since 27.11.2017.

I am a verified bitstamp customer since 2013.
My last two SEPA withdrawals (1.500 EUR and 13.300 EUR) hang since Dec 6 / Dec 7 with status "in process".
A few weeks ago I was unexpectedly bothered with a KYC Ticket #228836 on 27.11.17, but I anwered ALL questions immediatly, told my occupation, attached photos to proove the origin of my bitcoins (casascius coins, opened with BTC adresses readable with my passport near them). I did not get any reply for that till today, but after all I was able to successfully withdrawed funds < 2500 EUR via SEPA even i was on KYC.
But now my withdrawals are stuck: My last two SEPA withdrawals (1.500 EUR and 13.300 EUR) hang since Dec 6 / Dec 7 with Status "in process".
I opend a Ticket #259282 for that, but I only got a reply with a prefabricated textblock. I never got a reply to my KYC answers on 20.11.2017.
Two friends of mine who have relatively new bitstamp accounts sold their BTC after me and already have their money on their bank accounts.
I am really nervous now. This waiting is killing me. I lost tons of coins and money already over the years:, mtgox, and, and. So bad really bad memories come up, not fuled by paranoia, buit by real experiences.
Greetings from Germany
submitted by amagarn to Bitstamp [link] [comments]

Hypothetically if one wanted to purchase $1 Million USD worth of Bitcoin, how could they go about doing this?

Pretty much what the title says. Someone has a few million in fiat and they would like to diversify and buy 1 Million USD (or EUR, doesn't matter) worth of bitcoins, what would be the best and most hassle free way of doing this?
OMG EDIT: What is the benefit of using a dark pool vs doing it in plain sight over MtGox and shouting "yolo thug life" while I do it?
OOPS EDIT: Of course I meant, while I "hypothetically" do it.
submitted by BajillionBTC to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

My view for the worst, better, best case scenario

Even with current straight bankruptcy (hasan) trustee can address the court based on finance analysis and cuncil for new evaluations of intangible assets(btc) due to price violity and significant asset value increase after inital btc value evaluation, what if approved, with current straight bankrupty btc+forks must be sold to pay all creditors with updated and new evaluated claims. On another hand, only if CR and plan is approved, these btc and forks can be distributed unexchanged (unliquidated) to the creditors.
All asset whatever tangible or not is liquidated only to the certain point to get liquid asset (funds) to pay all creditors. When that is done, bankruptcy is completed and court/trustee authority stops. Any remaining asset remain as asset what company can use to resume busines or whatever they choose. Ordinary, in bankruptcy liquidation, all asset in full had to be liquidated, because creditors claims are much higher then company assets worth. Its liqidated in full only if asset can't be sold partialy and there is no other assets to be liquidated. However, in MtGox bankruptcy things has changed, untangible asset are now worth much more then total of approved creditors claims and if claims stays with current evaluation, asset will be liquidated only to the funds worth what equal all total approved creditor claims, nothing more! Update: under bankruptcy (hasan) corporation has to be dissolved what after distribution of all creditors has been made and Court bankruptcy termination order , dissolution esentualy cause all remaining asset liquidation and surplus sent to the shareholders - Tibanne and then Mark Karpeles.
Worst case scenario: The Court settle all creditors claim with current evaluated btc (483$) +fiat+interst coverted and paid as JPY where only enough intangible assets (btc) are liquidated (sold) to settle all creditors (what are almost already done), what makes bunkruptcy completed and reamining 165k btc and forks remain as Mtgox intangible asset where they can do whatever they want, liquidate and pay dividends, trade with btc, invest in other projects etc (bankruptcy is over, no obligation or liabilities to MtGox creditors). (Unfortunetly, in my opinion, this will most likely be the case. Read edit at the end of the OP).
Update: under bankruptcy (hasan) corporation has to be dissolved what after distribution of all creditors has been made and Court bankruptcy termination order , dissolution esentualy cause all remaining asset liquidation and surplus sent to the shareholders - Tibanne and then Mark Karpeles.
Better scenario: If some miracle (never) happens the Court accept new btc evaluation, but then these to be paid as JPY, all (or better to say) suficient remaining btc need to be sold(liquidate) to settle new evaluated creditor claims and question is how much liquid asset (funds) creditors would receive due crushing the btc price. Eventual btc+forks surplus(°) what would be quite lower then in worst case scenario, would remain as intangible MtGox asset where corporation can do whatever they want - bankruptcy is completed. (°(eventual btc+forks surplus would depend on new btc price evaluation for creditor claims and difference in new total claimed sum vs. funds JPY what trustee get from actual btc liquidation). Update: corporate dissolution aplies here too, just much less funds to be sent to the shareholders.
Best scenario: (Low probability, read edit at end of the OP) Civil rehabilitation under supervision with approved plan where creditors can claim all remaining btc+ forks unexchanged (not liquidated) + what is already been liquidated.
In this case, if plan is approved we would get 100% our current claim. We need to divide total claimed JPY sum with 50.058JPY (btc 483$) to get how much that is as btc base and on that result add aprox 17% of btc/bcc distributed as btc/bcc. Percentage (17%) might be lower, depend on ther lawsuit and non mtgox users creditor claims. Example of the best case scenario: Current approved claim. Rates to JPY (2014) BTC= 50,058.12 JPY; US$ = 1USD=103.64 JPY Currency US$ balance = 1,200$= approved sum JPY=124,368. Bitcoin balance = 14btc = approved JPY = 700,813.68 124,368+700,813.68 =825,181.68 JPY total of approved creditor claim/ that is sum what creditor receive 100% sum (liquid funds almost available, to be distributed as JPY). 825,181.68/50,058.12=> 16.48 BTC base: 16.48x17%=> 2.80 BTC and 2.80 BCC to return as cryptocurrency. Sumarise: Creditor receive 825,181.68 JPY and 2.80 btc and 2.80 bcc. That would be max return. Same calculation is aplied if creditor had only btc balances, only any currency (fiat) or both currency(fiat) and btc. Both fiat or currency mean: USD, EUR, GBP, JPY etc.
Iam not sure what that actual CR and plan are in the "best case scenario" as I have no details. We actually need sort of "better case scenario" just without required to liquidate remaining btc+forks and to be distributed as intangible asset (btc+forks). Beside, its Trustee duty to look best interest of all creditors, but for bankrupt company as well, what might cause conflict. Its defenetelly hard and complex situation, for all parties.
Questionable is whatever liquidated intangible asset (btc) under bankruptcy (straight or CR) are subjected to the capital gain (not dividend) and approprate income tax what would cause lower(dilution) funds distribution. However, in that case question is how would be regarded our creditor claims i.e. deductable as intangible asset value entry? Capital gain/profit- loss - deductable - expense=> corporate gross income - tax=> net income. So actually, from what I know from accounting practise, paid funds for evaluated claims would be asset (btc) "in value" while liquidated asset "out value" so actual capital gain net from btc are: difference in paid claims minus actal liquidation value! Beside, that "net capital gain" are not actually "net gain" as there are minus from other deductable sums and only when they are substracted make net income before corporate income tax! It maight be discharged, but I doubt it. Only liquidated untangible asset (btc) are regarded as corporation capital gain/profit, its not corporation dividends. Its conflicted situation because MtGox did not bought these btc, nor mined them, nor gifted, nor received as Mtgox investment and they were never corporation assets. Control of btc as intangible assets does not always equal propietorship (if there are contract or mutual agreement), but it will be (are) if not chalanged and Iam not sure on what grounds are we creditors then (unless corporation addmited debt/liability, but then again on what terms and conditions or user agreement these btc have been received?). Regardless, Trustee must have profesional finance advisoaccountant.
Some examples of intangible assets: patents, trademarks, franchises, goodwill, copyrights, Internet domain names, performance events, licensing agreements, service contracts, computer software, blueprints, manuscripts, joint ventures, medical records, permits, and trade secrets and many more. When MtGox were alive, such intangible asset doesn't enter finance balance sheet neither as asset value or liability value. It would if MtGox exchanged them (trade) for his account with buy/sell price. MtGox when alive these btc just had to record in secundary books as btc +/- held analiticaly for each user. Under bankruptcy proceedings, such a intangible assets as bitcoin is very hard to assest (evaluate), usualy trustee waits until last minute bankrupt company to liquidate them or best bid (°) and to update btc evaluation value what prior were blank, in order creditors get as much as possible. In our case, trustee did not do that and I have not found anything what would make him to evaluate at start of the filling the claims. (°)Actually I think, in case of public auction certain restriction might apply, certain party can't bid (I might be wrong).
However, not all asset are in the same category. In my country, bitcoin is regarded as financial asset, it does not matter is it tangible or not. If I as a person or the company make money from trading internet domains, it would be regarded as income subject to the tax. But if I as a person (not company) make money from exchanging certain personal financial assets, btc, any currency, diamonds, gemstone, gold and earn (dividends and interest excluded) from the positive rate difference, it would not be income subjected to income tax. But in same situation, company would be subjected to the taxes. Capital gain has two separate catogory, dividends what is profit on top of asset (asset reamin) and capital gain from the trade of asset, where one asset is exchanged to another asset and profit is from the rate difference, which can be either positive either negative.
There was a lawsuit against bankrupt Mtgox where user requested full btc refund what were denied with this explanation:
Presiding Judge Masumi Kurachi said the Civil Code envisages proprietorship for tangible entities that occupy space and allow for exclusive control over them. The judge said it is evident bitcoins do not possess the properties of tangible entities...
Basicly that mean, bitcoin is intangible where envisaged proprietorship can't be claimed as they are not phisical in nature and because Mtgox had exclusive control!(based on Japan civil code btw what is 120 years old (°), but what about corrporation/commerce law?) Beside, whatever is exclusive control of said bitcoin (intangible asset) depend on mutual contract, user agreement, term and conditions. Regardless, it was right Court call in this case, they just couldn't return full btc holdings, no chance whasoever, it would be a nightmire for the rest of users who doesn't follow his step, but if he accepted loss of aprox 3/4 btc and wanted only remaining 1/4 rulling might be different.
(°) The National Diet approved significant amendment to the Civil Code in May 2017 to update the Civil Code which is approximately 120 years old. Some general rules and many provisions regarding contracts were amended. The amended Civil Code will be enacted sometime before June 2020.
Edit: Our btc and any other currency balances held at MtGox with 2014 market value is our claim against mtgox all assets. BTC belong to the Mtgox -we creditors only claim that debt. Even these BTC are sold at higher rate then 2014. this just make raise in value of the mtgox liquid financial asset (while intangible asset btc exit books), but doesn't automaticly raise mtgox debts to us! Debt stays as is. According to the mtgoxlegal lawyer, new claim evaluation is not possible and I agree. Then how we the creditors, even in CR will be able to claim the btc as they dont belong to us as btc, but only current debt? Its like we sold our btc at 2014. at 483$ to the Mtgox who never paid us and that value we claim now within our claims. Try to imagine how btc dont exist or it exist but with same rate in 2018 as in 2014. We would be in the same situation if JPY rate against all other currency went to the roof, but btc are still at around 500$. Like its not in 2014, 1usd=103 JPY, but let say in 2018, 1usd=100,000 JPY, our claims would still reflect 2014 rates (even in CR) btc are not different. Even if CR reopen the window for filling claims and evaluation of the ALL claims, it would be at 2014. market rates!
I have a idea where we could get something over our current claims, but still brainstorming and many users won't like it as that is not what they expect to get. I think we are fucked - worst case scenario. Even if someone try to sue based on btc balances once held at Mtgox, it would fail. It might be different case, if Mark(•) said before bankruptcy, hey, these btc never belonged to the Mtgox, return what is left after audit to the mtgox users and then start bankruptcy to try get what went missing from real owned mtgox asset, what is not much and beside, I think bankruptcy would be terminated on grounds how mtgox asset can't even cover administrative creditors who have priority, let alone other creditors. (•) (All three insolvency proceedings can be filed either voluntarily or involuntarily. Generally, no one, including a debtor or any of its creditors, is obligated to file a petition to commence insolvency proceedings under Japanese law.).
50k JPY per bitcoin from creditors approved claim from 2014. is not binding because of Mtgox online claim system state it (or offline claim signiture), but its final and binding based on the Japan Bankruptcy Act court rulling and applicible as binding contractual Agreement in any other Japan proceeding, or eglible laws, Civil Rehabilitation included. Beside, that is only one reason, other reason is how Mtgox is in the bankruptcy proceeding since 2014. its never completed, eventual civil rehabilitation is only transition and if it ever commence, Mtgox is still under rehabilitation Act where for creditors claim total on 2014 rates total nothing change, but can increase distribution from the debtor profits max 100% claim total value (Mtgox has already enough funds or asset to sell to cover 100% payout). Third reason is how Mtgox users are regarded as last class unprotected non-priority creditors. And more reasons, but you get the picture! There is not much difference for the last class of creditors (Mtgox users) between liquidation or civil rehabilitation.
Due to Mtgox terms of use and accounting, Mtgox users are something as unsecured none-priority trade creditors without right to retain proprietorship of sold/bought, but unpaid btc (goods) until actual user withdraw. Real IN and OUT for both fiat and bitcoin with Mtgox are deposits and withdraw, trading are all just virtual balancing and Mtgox is in bankruptcy since 2014. without activity for creditors in regard on this IN and OUT (or trade). Otherwise, if we had legal grounds to get Mtgox btc asset surplus, we would get portion of non-stolen bitcoin back long time ago either outside of bankruptcy or within as separate satisfaction and with that portion btc back, would be able to claim damages for the missing bitcoins.
Anybody can (sponsor) buy MtGox capital (surplus included) and negotiate ~2000-3000$ per bitcoin where sponsor would need ~400-500M$ fresh capital (to take surplus and liabilities) and for that need civil rehabilitation, but nothing change for the creditor claims value (50k JPY/BTC), sponsor is still obligated only creditors claim total value and when settled, sponsor can use surplus free, fresh as their choice. If sponsor is a (group) of creditors, from that ~400-500M$ their claim total on 2014 rates is deducted. Bitcoins balances can't be segretated, otherwise creditors would have it long time ago.
Be careful who use you (creditor) to send umbiguous letters to their lawyers, surveys, without really knowing concrete and detailed plan and what is creditor benefit and how and on what legal grounds they plan to achive it, don't accept diplomatic responses! If somebody want to be a sponsor, I accept it, its a busines, but if nothing change to my creditor claim value with concrete plan how to achive it, it would just further delay distribution! Then its sponsor benefit, not ALL creditors benefit, even though might look like it! Read Bankruptcy and Rehabitilation Acts to learn about trustee duties and responsibilities and how Mtgox trustee have no say in this, trustee only follow court issued order.
Its not only this binding claim value a problem! If we had legal grounds on surplus btc assets, we would be secured creditors and would get portion of non-stolen bitcoin back long time ago either outside of bankruptcy or within, as separate satisfaction and with that portion btc back, would be able to claim damages for the missing bitcoins. I just don't understand people who spent $100k-200k for lawyers blind trust where lawyers just ensure them to think how CR somehow make Mtgox users what are last unsecured non-prority class of creditors into secured creditors with preserved propetorship of Mtgox bitcoin balances, who can claim bitcoin seperatelly either as btc or liquidated value and who could not claim that in the bankruptcy liquidation, but somehow magically in Civil Rehabilitation they can! Based on what legal grounds? Group lawyer told them how would need an court precedent in order creditors get above of 2014 rates claim value!? Precedent? If Mtgox users had agreemant what state how all balances (btc and fiat) are preserved propietorship until user withdraw, we would have aprox 1/4 btc long time ago and no precedent is required for that, (I could tell them this for free).
MtGox case were true Caveat Emptor. Finally, we all bought and sold bitcoin what was not actually fully unspent at Mtgox bitcoin wallets and users monetary balances did not reflect fully MtGox bank account balances.
04/22. I tried to discuss at mtgoxlegal group about counter-arguments what would overturn this major problems in order to help group lawyers, even we end up with nothing, but many misunderstund and bombarded me with questions to defend this and insulted me personaly, because some are ignorant, arrogant, rude, on ego trip and missed the the point how I must post problems first in order to discuss about valid arguments to overturn it, otherwise they would not understand what I talk about. They asked me even to prove it??? Imagine ignorance! Creditor situation is already funded within Japan bankruptcy and Rehabilitation Acts, Civil and Corporate Code, but I have to prove it to them! OMG, that all I can say on that. Wrong group to discuss obviously!
Even by some magic CR commence (if Tibanne appeal fail), it does not mean creditors get anything above of already approved claim total based on 2014 rates, unless Mtgox trustee state it so and rehabitilation plan is confirmed within 5 months after commencement.
submitted by alfabi to mtgoxinsolvency [link] [comments]

58,000 Mt.Gox users funds unclaimed and unable to claim

The total number of creditors, according to advice I was given on in this thread is around 21,000. From the leaked file, 79,212 users where account status = valid, also have a positive balance. That’s approximately 58,000 people with money on mt gox that have missed the arbitrary claim date that the trustee made up.
Trying to get an idea of who might just not have bothered due to small change in the account, I filtered out accounts with less than $100 in BTC, Eur, USD, Yen, GBP, CAD or AUD, and the figure left is 42,232 people. (note there is probably more but I didn’t go through the rest of the currency’s)
That still leaves more people that haven’t claimed, than those that have.
For these funds to go to the shareholders as profit is grossly unfair. For these funds to be split between the other creditors, is also unfair.
It’s not as if people aren’t asking for it either, just from the first page of a search on this forum alone: 1, 2 ,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10
The claim process needs to be re-opened, or another solution suggested (like Mark’s shortlived idea about resurrecting the site) that will allow the tied up money still to be returned to it’s rightful owners.
Do any of the current solutions for creditors address any attempt to return these funds (which is in fact the majority of users) to their rightful owners, who cannot claim at all due to the trustee’s date cut off ?
submitted by megahorse17 to mtgoxinsolvency [link] [comments]

MTGOX Withdrawal status--survey/accountability thread.

I have been trying to get a feel for the state of mtgox transactions other than the fact that they are extremely delayed.
It appears that some people are being offered so-called "manual" withdrawals for a whopping 5% fee that are coming through within weeks.
I made significant withdrawals from Mt Gox through Dwolla before/during the April run-up and crash. I have first hand experience of one unprocessed withdrawal from early November.
Have you iniated and received a mtgox withdrawal? Have you initiated and not received a withdrawal? How long has it been? What country are you in? What was the amount?
I have also seen people claiming small SEPA withdrawals are coming through quickly while larger ones are sitting dormant.
Most of this conversation is happening on the bitcointalk forums and is littered with complaints and way too noisy to parse.
I am humbling requesting that if you have first hand knowledge of receiving or not receiving a mtgox withdrawal you post it here.
I will keep this thread updated.
submitted by eof to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Mark Karpelès, le baron du Bitcoin chez MtGox (PODCAST #13) AMA #41: MtGox claims, Jack Dorsey Bitcoin.... MTGOX heeft net zo veel met bitcoin te maken als de DSB met de euro. - YT MtGox Bitcoins to BTC e Bitcoins in 50 seconds - YouTube MTGOX heeft net zo veel met bitcoin te maken als de DSB met de euro.

Bitcoin-Community ächtet MtGox-Chef. Nach dem Höchststand bei rund 1000 Euro im November hatte sich der Bitcoin-Kurs zum Jahreswechsel bei etwa 600 Euro eingepegelt. Seit Anfang Februar fiel der ... Bitcoincharts provides real-time USD price data of the Mt. Gox exchange including charts, orderbook and more. Viele Gläubiger warten noch immer auf ihr Geld, welches in US-Dollar zum damaligen Kurs von 392 EUR pro Bitcoin ausgezahlt werden soll. Mit den etwa 200.000 Bitcoin wäre die Auszahlung der Gläubiger ein Leichtes, da der Gesamtwert zum gegenwärtigen Kurs die Forderungen weit übertrifft. Eigentlich ist Mt.Gox also gar nicht mehr pleite. So kurios es klingt, der Gewinn aus der Insolvenzmasse ... Creditors are seeking to be paid in Bitcoin, rather than a fiat value of the Bitcoin they lost at the time. The 200,000 Bitcoin recovered is now worth around $1.5 billion, which would easily recover the $450 million lost at 2014 prices. Mt. Gox: The Cautionary Tale. In many ways, Mt. Gox mirrors Bitcoin itself. The infrastructure was still ... Die Geschichte der Bitcoin-Börse Mt.Gox hat in der Krypto-Welt einen Erdrutsch ausgelöst. Innerhalb kürzester Zeit ist die Plattform zur weltweit größten Krypto-Börse aufgestiegen – dann kam der Crash. Die Bilanz: verprellte Kunden, verschwundene Bitcoin, Insolvenzverfahren und viele offene Fragen. Wir zeichnen die unrühmliche Geschichte der Börse nach und fragen nach dem aktuellen ...

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Mark Karpelès, le baron du Bitcoin chez MtGox (PODCAST #13)

Gebruikersvragen: * Wanneer komt de volgende munt? Waarom geen Ripple? * Is gebruik van privacy coin zoals Monero meteen verdacht? Nieuws: - MtGox claims update - Jack Dorsey neemt Bitcoin ... Découvrir les 3 secrets de la crypto-monnaie : Je souhaite aujourd'hui vous partager une réflexion intéressante : avec tous les forks s... MtGox Bitcoins to BTC e Bitcoins in 50 seconds BITCOIN PRICE , BITCOIN FUTURE in doubt What is NAMECOIN BITCOIN'S First Fork http... Als iemand je voor 50 euro een I-phone aanbied op markt plaats , zo je er redelijke zekerheid vanuit kunnen gaan dat er iets niet klopt , Dit geld ook voor MTGOX , ze hadden soms duidelijk hogere ... Als iemand je voor 50 euro een I-phone aanbied op markt plaats , zo je er redelijke zekerheid vanuit kunnen gaan dat er iets niet klopt , Dit geld ook voor MTGOX , ze hadden soms duidelijk hogere ...